https://orcid.org/0000-0002-0049-1263
This editorial includes an edited transcription of an interview with Jan Friese, Chief Executive Officer of the Texas Counseling Association. In the interview that occurred on April 7, 2023, Jan shared her background before employment with the association, acceptance of employment with the association, engagement in the role, association changes over time, and recommendations for the current and incoming association leadership. Additionally, she discussed her experiences and perspectives on advocacy. The interview concluded with the legacy she leaves after her retirement and the future she hopes for the association.
Many people know you, Jan Friese, as the Executive Director, now Chief Executive Officer (CEO), of the Texas Counseling Association (TCA), but there are many things people do not know about you. One of the things people may not know is your background and your history before your time with TCA. Can you share your professional background and how that led to your role with TCA?
I whimsically relocated to Texas from New York City and landed in Houston with not much of a plan and got a job as the administrative assistant for the community psychiatry department of Baylor College of Medicine. So, I guess that was my first touch on mental health issues. Working in that position, I had the opportunity to help develop this cool interdisciplinary training consortium that placed nurses, counselors, social workers, psychiatrists, and psychologists on teams in public health clinics in Houston’s barrios. This was really innovative at the time because it was an interdisciplinary approach to health care. Who knew I would begin and end my career working on mental health issues in Texas? In between I moved to Austin and worked at the People’s Free Clinic, a little hippie clinic in the bottom of a church. We were raising money to deliver cutting edge services, including a teen birth control clinic in a very controversial time. Challenging the mores has always been part of me. Next, I worked for Planned Parenthood and other women’s healthcare organizations consulting on board development, grant writing, and things like that. This led to doing some legislative and public policy advocacy when it was becoming very difficult for women to continue to easily access the healthcare they wanted. I also worked for a higher education union, Texas United Faculty (American Federation of Teachers). After that, I was invited to job-share as the government relations director for the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board. While there, I also served as chair of Austin’s public hospital. It was from there that I took a break from advocacy and transferred those skills to the technology sector doing marketing and business development for several established and start-up tech companies.
What a real transition.
After about 7 years, I completely left technology behind to return to the nonprofit sector again. I’ll tell you honestly, the two things that attracted me to working for TCA were, number one, I would not have to dial for dollars because it’s a well-supported membership organization with robust financials. And two, I couldn’t imagine who would not support and like counselors.
Can you talk about how you chose to accept the position with TCA? I’m sure you had other options for employment. So, there must have been something about it where you said yes to TCA and no to other options or opportunities.
Although I’m not a professional counselor, I have benefited significantly from counseling. So, I recognized the important work counselors do. That was very important for me. As I was looking to return to the nonprofit sector, I wanted to be very careful. I’m experienced enough to know, if you’re going to do a job well, it’s hard work. And if you’re going to work hard, you should work at what you love. So that certainly was a factor: the mission of TCA, that there was a strategic plan – even though it was 25 pages long which was sobering. I said then in my interviews, and I still say to this day, TCA is quite ambitious. Another factor, as I said earlier was that I wouldn’t have to dial for dollars to ensure that the organization would be sustained. Having to raise money for your nonprofit organization can take you away from really doing the mission of the association. And as I said earlier, I really thought, wow, TCA is not going to be as controversial as many of the other organizations and missions that I have represented over at the legislature. That was not correct.
That was a surprise for you.
Oh, that surprise hit me the first six weeks.
What was your first surprise that counselors were not as a non-controversial or violated your assumption that everybody loves counselors?
There’s a section in the education code that directs the Texas Education Agency (TEA) to work with state professional school counselor organizations to develop the evaluation instrument for school counselors. The Texas Association of School Boards (TASB) filed a bill to repeal that section of the code. They were not successful, but it also helped me encourage TCA to revisit their evaluation model for school counselors, which they did. And the good news is, both TCA’s evaluation model and that section of the code are still in place today. It was a shock, but we prevailed.
Sounds like what is sometimes referred to as a turf battle.
It was really a turf battle. I think that was what really surprised me. Why would the school boards not want to work with the counseling association? That was my first awakening to, it’s not just someone who was unhappy with their counseling, but it was this whole, very powerful association. Ironically now with the incessant assault on public education that is underway, TASB and TCA are frequently aligned on multiple issues.
Well, one of the things you said earlier, “I am not a counselor,” is also something you say openly, publicly say. So, I am curious what it is like to be the CEO of an association within a profession without being a member of the profession. Can you talk about what it is like to not be a counselor, and to be the CEO of an association of counselors?
One of the things I learned coming in was how much diversity there is in what I would refer to as the verticals of professional counseling. There’s so much diversity in the types of counselors, what their areas of specialty are, what their training is. I certainly have learned a lot. I think it’s important for an association like TCA to have someone in the helm who isn’t aligned with any particular vertical, but instead focuses on the big picture which then helps me focus on business and operations. Not being a counselor also helps me focus on professional development for our members and leadership as opposed to promulgating one aspect or specialty of the profession over another. I also think it gives me more credibility in a lot of arenas. And it helps sometimes when TCA might be put on the spot in a hearing that for me to be able to say, “I’m not a professional counselor. I represent them, done it for a long time. I know a lot about their work, but I’m not a professional counselor. So, I’m going to back off that question.” And that has, in my opinion, created greater benefit rather than harm for TCA because it buys us time to refine our response.
I think is really important that part of TCA’s mission is also to develop strong professional counselor leaders. If I were a professional counselor, the expectation would be that I’m going to have the answers, define the policy, create the position statements. Not being a professional counselor, the expectation now is that I will go back to our volunteer leadership and ask, “How do I address this?” For example, when we had a bill in committee to expand the definition of school counselor’s work with at-risk students. The sponsor was getting pressure to amend the bill and asked for our agreement. It was great for me to respond by saying, “I’m going to go back to the people who gave you that language and get them to tell me.” Not being a counselor broadens the engagement of people in the association because I can’t do everything for you. I can’t answer those questions and I shouldn’t. It also ensures that I’m only your spokesperson when I’m clearly designated to be your spokesperson. And when it comes to other issues, we rely on the people who have the expertise, the people who’ve been elected by TCA members to do this.
I imagine another piece of that is that it necessitates our engagement. We can’t just say, “Well, Jan will take care of it.” It keeps us, our association leaders and members in dialogue, us with you and you with us. I see that as a dynamic and relational process.
The dialogue helps members and volunteers be aware of this what is happening in public policy discussions. Don’t be in your tower or office. You have people who don’t know what the heck professional counselors do, making really important decisions about you.
There are always people who will say, “TCA is just for school counselors.” Or, “TCA is just for professional counselors.” Or, “TCA is run by counselor educators.” Not being a professional counselor gives me credibility to speak to say, “Well, in point of fact, we’re not just for school counselors. This is what we’ve done for you.” And it gives me that credibility that I think would be harder to muster if I was a school counselor, or an LPC, or a counselor educator.
What you have described so far include advantages of not being a counselor. I imagine there might be some disadvantages. Can you talk about any disadvantages of being the CEO and not being a counselor?
Honestly, I’m going to say in this role, none. I think one of the things that has helped me be a good leader in this organization is my curiosity. Not having that level of expertise but having a curious and open mind has enabled me to better understand and appreciate the diversity and level of professionalism within all of our divisions. So, I have not found it to handicap me.
Not being a counselor fuels curiosity. Sounds like something that is sustaining as well. When you retire, you will have been with TCA for about 20 and 1/2 years. Aside from the curiosity, what has kept you engaged with TCA for all of that time?
I have a huge respect for the work that all of our members do. I have, as you heard when I talked about my background a deep commitment to social justice. I planned originally to become a teacher; my degree is in education and communications. I think that training and experience, helped keep me engaged for all this time at TCA.
One of the interesting things about the Texas Counseling Association and your role in particular is that your role remains constant, but the leadership of the membership changes through nominations and elections. That means you have a different president or as you have been known to say a “new boss” each year. Given that, what is it like to be the constant and to have a new boss and change in leadership team each year?
I’m thinking of a lot of funny answers to this. I have a tapestry in my office that says, “Think like a tree. Have deep roots, but blow in the wind.” Different people come to leadership with different levels of experience within TCA or other organizations. Some people are very southern and I am very New York, so there’s never a dull moment. Over time I’ve worked with the incoming leadership to try to build some systems to make those transitions easier for example, I meet with the President weekly and about mid-year through each year, I begin meeting with the President-elect every couple of weeks. That practice has helped. Those transitions can still be challenging. But a challenge can be a hardship or an opportunity, or usually both. These annual transitions have created opportunities for me to grow and to let go. Some of my best friends are now former presidents of TCA.
So many opportunities to build relationships.
Exactly. One of the things I think that is essential for a nonprofit organization that has that consistent and constant cycle of change in leadership is to have robust strategic planning. The most productive transitions have been with incoming presidents who understand strategic planning and understand that they are there for a season, to be the conductor on the train as it rides down the rails of the strategic plan, as opposed to derailing the train to their mission because they thought everything is screwed up and they’re going to make it better. Having that strategic plan deeply embedded into the roots of TCA makes those transitions so much easier. And as your staff person, that also helps with the transition because when someone wants to go off those rails, I think the person sitting in the CEO chair has to have enough self-confidence and sense of self to be able to say to people who’ve been elected, “You’re going off the rails. This is the strategic plan. You know what? That’s really not your job.” So, learning how to have those conversations in a way that nobody feels bad, that was a great skill that I’ve learned here.
The strategic plan helps with transition and continuity along with structure and process. It sounds like it also sets up new leadership or incoming leadership for success. With continuity in mind, some leaders stay continuously involved in TCA and some are involved for a season. You have worked closely with a number of TCA leaders over time. What would you say are the key attributes of the leaders who stay invested or are able to get others to invest in TCA as members or leaders?
I would say that they bring with them a passion for the profession as opposed to a commitment to a career.
You made a clear distinction.
People who have served as president and continue to remain committed to the association, generally you’ll see that passion reflected in the breadth of their work. If they’re in as a counselor educator, they’re well published. If they’re a school counselor, they’re engaged in training and mentoring. If they’re a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC), they’re paying attention to the rules and regulations and the policies that impact their profession. It’s in their guts to just do that. It’s in my gut to be an advocate, and I’ve done it since when I was a kid even. So, it’s in their gut. You will see them not only sustaining engagement with TCA, but with other entities like Chi Sigma Iota or a national division or their local chapter. The other piece I would say is that most of them had a mentor who encouraged them to be a part of a professional family as opposed to only doing your job. So, it’s their professional passion.
So, passion for the profession is the key attribute. We are currently in the search process for a new CEO, so their passion for our profession will be important. As we anticipate for the first time in more than 20 years, we will have a new CEO. What advice would you give for the incoming CEO and the association leadership?
I’m going to tell a little anecdote then I’m going to answer your question, okay? When I first started at TCA, it was bumpy and really hard. They hadn’t had an executive director for three years and a member of the board of directors had applied for the job and didn’t get it and remained on the board of directors. I remember coming home from one of those hard meetings and sharing my frustration with my spouse. He advised me not to take it personally and remember that, while I was thinking of everyone as counselors, that those folks were not “my counselor.” What he said to me has become part of my staff orientation: “They may be counselors, but they’re not your counselor.” So honestly, that is what I will say to the incoming person. They may be counselors, but they’re not your counselor. This is their business.
I think it’s also helpful even more especially for the volunteer leadership, trust and allow your CEO to execute. Volunteer leadership should not communicate with staff without communicating first to the CEO. The CEO supervises the staff. The volunteer leaders’ job is to work with the CEO. Those boundaries are hard to keep but they are very important. And I would say, especially for the board, it’s going to be scary to trust someone you don’t know.
You are saying those firm boundaries clearly define roles, functions, and pathways of communication.
Yes. I have had hard conversations with board members, with certain presidents over the course of my tenure here who didn’t like that. Tough questions asked. But it can be very confusing to staff when volunteers try to direct their work. Volunteers may consider their project the most important work to do but in reality, staff can be working on other more essential tasks. Allowing the CEO to manage the work of the association can be very hard for new leaders, but it is essential. Maintaining those boundaries is probably one of the trickiest areas to negotiate.
One of the things you said is you are an advocate and have been since childhood. You seem rather comfortable with advocacy. Professional counselors have various levels of comfort in engaging in advocacy. For those who are unsure and say, “Where would I even begin? I don’t even know how to start with advocacy. It feels very abstract or it feels very large or far away.” What might you tell them?
I would tell them to start by talking to a neighbor about what you do and why it’s important. Talk to someone you know, but who doesn’t know what it is that you do, because that’s fairly safe. Another way is to write a letter to the editor because that’s also very safe. You’re not actually going up to someone in power. Also, and I say this in advocacy training, I remind them that policy makers are just people. Some people perceive advocacy as really big and overwhelming when in point of fact, advocacy is persuading someone who doesn’t know, to do something that they might not have thought of before.
It feels very accessible. Start where you feel comfortable, build some confidence, see yourself as an advocate and make that difference in small and incremental ways.
Exactly.
How might you have seen advocacy change over time?
Just like everything else, the advent of the internet and technology and the ability to use social media to blast out the fact that I was at the Capitol for 12 and a half hours one day this week to testify for two minutes. One thing that doesn’t change is the need for patience. While there, Igrabbed some food at the cafeteria and shared a table with this older gentleman and we were talking and laughing and reminding each other about the days before the extension was built. Back there, in the basement of the old capital, the main capital building, before they built the extension, they had this closet that everybody called the Linoleum Club because it was the only place you could get food. And it was the worst of the worst food.
Was it actually called the Linoleum Club?
It was not the official name. It was called the Linoleum Club because there were all these other clubs that all high dollar lobbyists would go to. But if you were really boots on the ground, you went to the Linoleum Club and you had to stay at the Capitol all the time. Everything was paper. You couldn’t just send stuff electronically. So, I mean, I think it’s been a great boon, so nice in the twilight of the session that I can go home and monitor from my TV to see if my bill dies or passes, because at that point, there’s nothing else I can do. Rather than having to sit in the gallery and hope that I’m able to hear what’s happening, I’m home and the sound is better when you’re not there.
So those are huge changes, and that can be very good. It could also be very bad because it’s so easy for misinformation to get out there.
Indeed, information and misinformation travel quickly. If we continue on changes, you have you seen over time, can you talk about the notable or significant changes in TCA that you’ve seen over time?
The most important impact, the biggest impact was the decision to focus on a unified professional identity. The person who led that charge is Mary Libby during her presidency where she asked everyone at leadership training to introduce themselves by saying, “I’m a professional counselor who works in … .” And it was tough. Everyone did not want to do it, and several people did not. But that’s now how you all say it now, “I’m a professional counselor in a school.” or “I’m a professional counselor in private practice.”
You see and hear the outcome of those efforts.
It’s really become part of your jargon. That was very difficult. And as your leader who’s not a counselor, I would ask, “Why are you fighting amongst each other? You have so many enemies out there. You have to be together. Stop competing with each other.” So, for me, as a leader of the association who’s not a counselor, that you finally came to the decision that you were stronger united and still respecting your diversity by having our 11 divisions, I would say that that was probably one of the most important changes that I’ve seen happen in the association.
As you approach retirement, what’s the legacy that you hope to leave with TCA?
TCA is united. You have come together as a profession with a powerful mission. People buy in and operate in alignment with the mission and as a result, TCA is extremely well respected by other associations. We are respected by our friends and our enemies alike.
What a statement. What an accomplishment to have a well-respected, united association as a legacy. Now you are fast approaching your final days with TCA and your upcoming retirement. Let’s fast-forward 10 years down the road. If you were to come back and visit TCA 10 years from now, what do you hope that you see?
20,000 members. I would hope to see TCA members holding public office, either appointed or elected. And that your staff remains happy and continues to enjoy working here. I think the fact that for the most part, staff has such long tenures and that helps TCA stay on track as well. People really believe in TCA. To some extent, it speaks to my leadership, but I think it really speaks to the mission of TCA and everyone who works here.
Believing in the mission does make it easy for people to stay, both the staff and the association members.
Right, and the leadership.
Jan, I have reached the end of my list of questions. But before we close, I wanted to check with you and see if perhaps you were expecting a question or anticipating a question or if there is something that we did not get to yet. I wanted to give you time to pause and think through if there’s something that comes to the surface for you.
I will use the analogy of strong city manager versus weak city manager form of government. When I started with TCA, they really were operating from a weak city manager form of government where the leadership was controlling things. And of course, three years without an executive director, you would expect that. But when you have an organization, the size and the breadth of TCA, it would be the difference between Austin in 1975 and Austin in 2023. If someone left here in ‘75 and came back in 2023, they would say, it’s not Austin anymore. Well, of course it’s Austin. It’s just different.
It’s grown. It still has a lot of the essence. And I think TCA still has that essence of being driven by the priorities of our volunteers. I think the beauty of where TCA has grown is that we still hold onto the essence and the passion of the profession through your strategic plan and through your commitment to volunteer leadership, committee chair training, summer leadership training, and you recognize the importance of letting people who know how to do these tasks, who are trained in the business run your business so that your organization can grow strong.
And I guess that also goes back to what advice would I give to the incoming person and the board as you bring this person in. Your incoming person needs to listen to and hear and respect the essence, the soul of TCA. And then you need to let them get you there and take you farther by making sure all of your business is intact.
I appreciate you adding that to the close of our conversation. Jan, I want to thank you for your willingness to share your experience with TCA through this interview. I am confident it will be a meaningful editorial for the journal now and in the future.